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keybdplyr
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 257
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| eaglemom wrote: | | keybdplyr wrote: |
Natalie’s appearance has usually reminded me of a circus clown, so no, not “cute”. The Chicks became popular because people liked them and their music. They became unpopular because people stopped liking them. It’s very simple. It obviously upsets them and their defenders that they are no longer popular, which tells me that THEY value popularity. |
Um...no. What upsets the 'defenders' is the way in which the group was demonized for using their free speech to 'criticize the President on foreign soil'.
Sarah Palin anyone? |
Similar to demonizing the fans for using their free speech rights criticize the Chicks?  |
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keybdplyr
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 257
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| mewsical wrote: | | keybdplyr wrote: | Sorry, got busy.
Since it’s called the music BUSINESS, I would say Swift is quite successful. If you prefer personal satisfaction as the barometer, then she may be even MORE successful, as she seems very happy writing and singing about what inspires her. If she decides she needs to write about changing the world, fine with me, but I don’t insist she do so because I want her to. You seem to be saying she should stop writing songs from her heart, songs that give her satisfaction, and start writing songs that give the critics satisfaction. |
Joni was the very last person to write for the satisfaction of anyone but herself.
Taylor and her heart? How do you identify with it? Joni marketed, if you care to use that term, to women, no matter their age - she was also very savvy about men. Taylor markets to a niche market and comes off like a high school girl - her market. Like the Kardashians, etc. Yes, it's good business, with about zero artistic integrity. And I know that Taylor knows what I'm saying. She's many things, but a fool she isn't.
| Quote: | | Natalie’s appearance has usually reminded me of a circus clown, so no, not “cute”. |
What a stupid remark, and I bet Taylor would think the same of it.
| Quote: | | The Chicks became popular because people liked them and their music. They became unpopular because people stopped liking them. It’s very simple. It obviously upsets them and their defenders that they are no longer popular, which tells me that THEY value popularity. |
And she'd also find this pretty silly as well. And that's what I mean about her. She's smarter than she's being allowed to be. Yeah, she takes a popular stance, but she does not need to be 'popular.' She needs to be an artist, creating her own rules, and inspiring others to do the same. |
I don’t identify with Swift. I don’t care for her music, but that’s completely subjective. I don’t relate to the gangly blond look, personally (not to mention that I’m not attracted to children). I can still acknowledge the talent, the success, without being a fan. Same with the Chicks. Not my thing, but who could question their talent and success. Keith Urban is another, for me.
I’m not going to feel bad for not liking the clown mouth lipstick look either. YOU projected appearance onto it. There are plenty of extremely attractive women that I think are worthless as artists. Maines is not one of them.
Swift’s opinion on any this or anything else matters very little to me. I just think it’s cool when someone can be themselves, do what they like to do, and be successful because of it rather than in spite of it. |
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eaglemom

Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 6290
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| keybdplyr wrote: | | eaglemom wrote: | | keybdplyr wrote: |
Natalie’s appearance has usually reminded me of a circus clown, so no, not “cute”. The Chicks became popular because people liked them and their music. They became unpopular because people stopped liking them. It’s very simple. It obviously upsets them and their defenders that they are no longer popular, which tells me that THEY value popularity. |
Um...no. What upsets the 'defenders' is the way in which the group was demonized for using their free speech to 'criticize the President on foreign soil'.
Sarah Palin anyone? |
Similar to demonizing the fans for using their free speech rights criticize the Chicks?  |
Oh that's right... it was the fans that were the real victims in this.
Natalie Maines uses her free speech to criticize the sitting President. The right were up in arms and threw everything they could at them because she spoke out against the President on foreign soil while we were at war.
Caribou Barbie uses her free speech to criticize the sitting President on foreign soil while we are STILL at war and in a communist country no less. So where are the right wingers now? How come they aren't up in arms over this? Why isn't this the lead story on Fox News? |
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keybdplyr
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 257
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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I don’t think those fans that expressed their displeasure with the Chicks are generally the type to cry victim. If you’re caught deceiving your fans, don’t expect them to take it lying down. The rest is opportunistic distraction and media circus.
Henley talks trash on everything Right and no one bats an eye. That’s him being him. No deception, no backlash, no circus.
If one day Palin revealed she was extremely liberal after building a conservative base, believe me she would hear about it. Her supporters would turn on her in a heartbeat. |
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eaglemom

Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 6290
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| keybdplyr wrote: | I don’t think those fans that expressed their displeasure with the Chicks are generally the type to cry victim. If you’re caught deceiving your fans, don’t expect them to take it lying down. The rest is opportunistic distraction and media circus. |
This is where I get confused - lets say FOX found out Taylor Swift voted for the dems in the last election - would her fans turn on her? She's not allowed to be a country singer AND vote for the dems? |
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keybdplyr
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 257
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| eaglemom wrote: | | keybdplyr wrote: | I don’t think those fans that expressed their displeasure with the Chicks are generally the type to cry victim. If you’re caught deceiving your fans, don’t expect them to take it lying down. The rest is opportunistic distraction and media circus. |
This is where I get confused - lets say FOX found out Taylor Swift voted for the dems in the last election - would her fans turn on her? She's not allowed to be a country singer AND vote for the dems? |
It’s not about being left or right. It’s about being honest. Willie Nelson is a Democrat and he’s a country icon.
Swift is a kid. If anything, she might get backlash if she came out strongly outspoken conservative or started preaching abortion is murder or something similar. Worse, if her fans found out she was really 26 years old, a conniving boy stealing bitch, or a song stealer. A lot of them would lose interest in her. |
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mewsical Site Admin

Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 18548
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| keybdplyr wrote: | | eaglemom wrote: | | keybdplyr wrote: | I don’t think those fans that expressed their displeasure with the Chicks are generally the type to cry victim. If you’re caught deceiving your fans, don’t expect them to take it lying down. The rest is opportunistic distraction and media circus. |
This is where I get confused - lets say FOX found out Taylor Swift voted for the dems in the last election - would her fans turn on her? She's not allowed to be a country singer AND vote for the dems? |
It’s not about being left or right. It’s about being honest. Willie Nelson is a Democrat and he’s a country icon.
Swift is a kid. If anything, she might get backlash if she came out strongly outspoken conservative or started preaching abortion is murder or something similar. Worse, if her fans found out she was really 26 years old, a conniving boy stealing bitch, or a song stealer. A lot of them would lose interest in her. |
The south was originally deeply Democratic. Andy Jackson invented democracy, and he was a southerner, correct? By the time I moved south, it was being taken over by the Repubs. I lived in a state bordering Arkansas, the home state of the then-President, and boy, you could sure tell how they were setting him up.
So thanks for pointing out that Willie holds fast to the old ways, so to speak. And if Taylor is smart, which I believe she is, she'll go sit down with country artists like Willie and soak it all in like a sponge. If she can do that, she has my vote. I don't want to see her sell out, and she seems to be teetering on the edge of doing so. |
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eaglemom

Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 6290
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| keybdplyr wrote: | | eaglemom wrote: | | keybdplyr wrote: | I don’t think those fans that expressed their displeasure with the Chicks are generally the type to cry victim. If you’re caught deceiving your fans, don’t expect them to take it lying down. The rest is opportunistic distraction and media circus. |
This is where I get confused - lets say FOX found out Taylor Swift voted for the dems in the last election - would her fans turn on her? She's not allowed to be a country singer AND vote for the dems? |
It’s not about being left or right. It’s about being honest. Willie Nelson is a Democrat and he’s a country icon. |
So when was Natalie not honest? When did she deceive her fans? Was she a Bush worshiper before she made her comments? Or did the fans just assume she was? |
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keybdplyr
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 257
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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I don’t know that it was assumed she was a Bush supporter, but I think it was assumed she was not someone who would make a rude and gratuitous statement about the president. She could have said, “We aren’t big fans of our president, but we support our troops”. No backlash. But that’s not what she wanted to express. She wanted it to bite a little bit more. She wanted to demean and ridicule the president a bit. She’s perfectly entitled to say what she wants, and in just the way she wants. It’s not for me to tell her how to “properly” express herself. It’s her opinion, her thoughts reveled, and it says something about her. Obviously a lot of fans didn’t like what they learned about her.
FWIW, I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to the artists when the fans project their OWN perceptions upon the artist. OTOH, it’s not realy “fair” that some artists have a lot of success over others and make a lot of money because the misperception is favorable, as in this case. No more than the entire business is “fair” in who catches a break and who doesn’t. Let’s be real.
In retrospect, the words “deceived” or “dishonest” is not completely accurate in this case. I’m not saying the Chicks were at fault for letting their fans assume something inaccurate about them or maybe being oblivious to the fact that they were the sweethearts of the rodeo. What I’m saying is that they benefitted from the misunderstanding through most of their career and when the people found out they had they had an inaccurate perception of the Chicks, they walked away. The fan giveth and the fan takeith away. The alternative scenario is that the fans NEVER like them and they NEVER have any success. I don’t think perpetual obscurity was the new direction they had in mind when they hired Natalie and fired her predecessor.
Last edited by keybdplyr on Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mewsical Site Admin

Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 18548
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Kanye's Fame Kills tour has been canceled, hopefully providing more time for reflection.
Perhaps KW can now learn it's inappropriate to diss women. To the tune of millions.
Remember Robin Williams quip, "Cocaine is God's way of letting you know you are making too much money."?
He needs to ask himself what his mother would have wanted him to do with all this money, power and influence, aside from apologizing to Taylor, who bore him no ill-will whatsoever.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/10/01/kanye.west.tour.canceled/index.html |
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mewsical Site Admin

Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 18548
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Just wanted to post this Lefsetz epiphany regarding Taylor Swift in this thread as well. I've long maintained that Ms. Swift, although a pretty girl with a nice smile, is no match for real singers like Adele, who does not need to rely on Auto Tune to sound good. When people start to compare her to Joni Mitchell ... Anyway, over to Bob:
"That's HORSESHIT!
No, I'm not afraid of putting that in the title. It's just that if I do, this missive won't pass through your spam filters. Hell, for those of you working at companies hyping supposedly limit-testing acts, it probably won't pass through your company filters now that I've actually spelled the word out in this missive. Because that's how afraid of plain English this country is. And if you are protected from reality, how can you know the truth?
And speaking of the truth...
Every time I write about Taylor Swift, and let's be clear, I've foamed at the mouth plenty, I get e-mail from people, true pros, people I know, with big jobs, that she's auto-tuned to death, not only on record, but live. Sour grapes? None of these people are involved with Ms. Swift.
But now I know they're right.
Because I just caught Ms. Swift's opening monologue, a song, on SNL.
Holy shit, she can't sing a lick.
It's like when you're in the car and someone pipes up, singing along to the song on the radio, and you start to cringe, and ultimately need to say something, telling them to shut up, because their voice is so bad.
Believe me, I know I've got a bad voice. But I don't try to be a professional singer.
And we're not talking Bob Dylan here. Forget about the goose farts on his Christmas album (notice how now that it's dropped no one is saying a word...it's just that bad), Dylan was a student of the art, and in his heyday could sing rings around Ms. Swift. Ms. Swift couldn't even make the high school glee club. Not even the junior high version. Hell, I know, I made it once then got kicked off.
What were they thinking here?
I could blame Ms. Swift, but she's not old enough to know better.
But her handlers are.
Why reveal the truth? They almost even had me faked out. But watching this execrable performance I'm questioning the entire product. She can't sing, there are co-writers... Sure, she's got pure desire, but how much is real underneath?
Believe me, the albums are great. But what kind of fucked up world do we live in where to make it as an act, you don't even have to sing well?
I mean it's one thing if you're doing comedy.
Then again, My Son The Nut, Allan Sherman, had a better voice than Ms. Swift.
But the handlers got too greedy, they didn't know their limits. Like Master P, trying to play professional basketball. Worse, Michael Jordan trying to play professional baseball. But at least Mr. Jordan was a professional athlete.
This is the greatest case for preserving mystery in the Internet era. Hell, you didn't see J. Lo singing on SNL. Why deflate the golden goose? Do you really need this victory lap?
Call it hubris.
Not the first time we've seen this in the music business.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/107502/saturday-night-live-taylor-swift-monologue "
and then this email was sent to Bob:
"told you that 3-4 months ago.
but I was just ignored.
Wait until you hear the award show tomorrow night.
Nashville should change its name to Auto Tune City
name withheld so I can still work in this fake business we call country music.
ex-monitor guy for Taylor Swift."
_____ |
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eaglemom

Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 6290
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't know a Taylor Swift song if I heard one. I saw that SNL show. I thought the same thing Bob did. I was really hoping she was just being goofy.  |
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mewsical Site Admin

Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 18548
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| eaglemom wrote: | I wouldn't know a Taylor Swift song if I heard one. I saw that SNL show. I thought the same thing Bob did. I was really hoping she was just being goofy.  |
She really can't sing. You can't Auto Tune on television, unless you mime to track, and that would be another real no-no.
Another guy emailed Bob and said that his 8 year old daughter really likes both Carrie Underwood (who really can sing) and Taylor. He took his daughter to see them both in concert. The little girl was bitterly disappointed in Taylor, and asked her father why her notes were 'crooked.'
Taylor is manufactured, like a country Barbie Doll. Nashville is going straight back into the artistic shitter if they start promoting singers who can't sing. It's been bad enough with the hat acts and all the sound-alike crap of the last ten years or so, but if we've reached the bottom of the barrel, it looks like Taylor Swift and her ilk are a good indicator.
You can't stack her against Dolly Parton, for example. That's a real talent. And there's no need for Nashville to compromise for the sake of selling some 17 year old songwriter.
Nashville used to be overloaded with real talent when I was living there. I can't imagine what's going on there now, except greed and inexperience in most cases.
I was watching one of those 'people buying a house' shows yesterday, and they featured a young couple in Nashville, in the business of course. She's a secretary at one of the record labels, and they didn't say what exactly he did but also in the business. They looked at three houses - one in my old neighborhood, which was the most expensive, interestingly, 500K, and they ultimately bought some crappy new thing out in South Nashville for $400K. I hope they both have jobs a year from now. |
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mewsical Site Admin

Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 18548
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Taylor is now under attack in the media for being too sexy too soon. At this point, she looks more and more like Miley Cyrus, careerwise. Another marketing escapade going off the rails.
If Nashville can't find a bona fide female country artist without resorting to trickery, then perhaps they just need to ratchet down and wait. |
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